the human province

While I'm with you 100% on the LePen side, can't agree on your "hopefully..."
I immigrated to France from America almost 20 years ago, and I’ve been lucky enough to know both countries from within. Sarko, much as he represents a more liberal economy, is a far cry from LePen, or even dubya, shrub, W… you know, Bush.
Although I am uncomfortable about some of Sarko's flirtation with the far right (on immigration, etc) during the campaign, I do believe he offers the best chance to reform France. At the risk of sounding cynical, it’s not like one has to want to invite the guy over for dinner. If I must hold my nose while voting Sarko, so be it.
In any case, the Socialists are still defending "the French model" as if there was such a thing that could interest anyone in France or elsewhere with any understanding of economics. She can thus only offer empty promises for justice & benefits for all. Too bad the PS hasn't learned from the lessons of the UK, Germany, & the Clinton democrats in the US... The old left ideas are broken, and only the "new left", fiscally responsible, pro-growth, pro-business, and featuring a real sustainable social & environmental program can beat the right. If this existed in France, I'd vote Socialist again. Until them, Sarko has my vote.

While I can agree that Royal is far from an ideal president and that France's economy is in desperate need of reform, I can't say that I'd ever vote for Sarkozy. Ever. Even if it were Sarkozy v. Le Pen, I'd just as soon not vote at all.

Sarko is the last person that should be carrying out reforms. Some of his policies and remarks, particularly as regards immigration and "la racaille," are remarkably similar to those of Le Pen.

He is such a polarizing character that any reform he tries to implement will be met with extreme and perhaps violent opposition. Think the anti-CPE demonstrations and the riots in 2005 were bad? Wait until Sarkozy is calling the shots. Even De Villepin was able to unite the students and the fonctionnaires (two groups whose economic interests are ostensibly at odds) against the CPE. The potential for anti-Sarko groups that may not have much in common is even greater.

Like it took Reagan to go to China, maybe it would take someone from the left to make some hard but necessary changes to France's economy.

Until then, if anyone needs to be cleaned up "à coups de kärcher," it's Sarkozy and his ilk, including "Madame la Ministre" Rachida Dati.

Hi Sean - I understand your point of view, but strongly disagree. Politics is a scummy game, and no one that plays stays clean. Sure, Sarko threw a bone or two to the far right.. like Sego & her pro-profits comments. I don't agree with Sarko's immigration tchache, but I think he's too much of a pragmatist to shoot himself in the foot economically by actually attacking immigration as President. Watch his spoken policy drop under the waterline as soon as he's elected. He knows, as we all do, that the immigrants are the hardest-working people in France, and for less. Their contribution via work, consumption & taxes far outweighs the cost of keeping the door, if not exactly open, at least slightly ajar.
I have said the same thing as you about the leftists being the reformers here, but I don't believe they're capable anymore. They are too sharply split among themselves, and some don’t want reform at all.
During the riots last year, we all saw the photos of policemen, firemen, even ambulance drivers trying to do their jobs being targets for morons throwing rocks, Molotov cocktails and worse. Sarko was Minister of the Interior then, and those were “his guys”. I too would have called the rioters “racaille”, and worse.
I do agree that we're headed for social confrontation this fall, but don't expect Sarko to cave in. He's got such a big ego that he'll stand up to the demonstrations, as I believe he should.
Not that he should turn the CRS loose with fire hoses & dogs, but that he should shame the self-serving syndicalists & functionaires into dropping their anti-growth, anti-job positions. Villepin was obliged to back down, as his President lacked the political courage to stand up & take responsibility (that’s Jacques all over, n’est pas?) Villepin had no mandate for reform. Sarko will.
By the way, it was Nixon that opened up China. (Actually, it was Kissinger that opened up China via the Nixon-look-alike puppet. Nixon was already a tranquilized zombie by then.)

Oops, that is embarrassing. I thought Nixon but wrote Reagan. I think I've got him on the mind these days.

I just got in from a lecture and a late dinner, so I'll respond tomorrow...

While I'm with you 100% on the LePen side, can't agree on your "hopefully..."
I immigrated to France from America almost 20 years ago, and I’ve been lucky enough to know both countries from within. Sarko, much as he represents a more liberal economy, is a far cry from LePen, or even dubya, shrub, W… you know, Bush.
Although I am uncomfortable about some of Sarko's flirtation with the far right (on immigration, etc) during the campaign, I do believe he offers the best chance to reform France. At the risk of sounding cynical, it’s not like one has to want to invite the guy over for dinner. If I must hold my nose while voting Sarko, so be it.
In any case, the Socialists are still defending "the French model" as if there was such a thing that could interest anyone in France or elsewhere with any understanding of economics. She can thus only offer empty promises for justice & benefits for all. Too bad the PS hasn't learned from the lessons of the UK, Germany, & the Clinton democrats in the US... The old left ideas are broken, and only the "new left", fiscally responsible, pro-growth, pro-business, and featuring a real sustainable social & environmental program can beat the right. If this existed in France, I'd vote Socialist again. Until them, Sarko has my vote.

While I can agree that Royal is far from an ideal president and that France's economy is in desperate need of reform, I can't say that I'd ever vote for Sarkozy. Ever. Even if it were Sarkozy v. Le Pen, I'd just as soon not vote at all.

Sarko is the last person that should be carrying out reforms. Some of his policies and remarks, particularly as regards immigration and "la racaille," are remarkably similar to those of Le Pen.

He is such a polarizing character that any reform he tries to implement will be met with extreme and perhaps violent opposition. Think the anti-CPE demonstrations and the riots in 2005 were bad? Wait until Sarkozy is calling the shots. Even De Villepin was able to unite the students and the fonctionnaires (two groups whose economic interests are ostensibly at odds) against the CPE. The potential for anti-Sarko groups that may not have much in common is even greater.

Like it took Reagan to go to China, maybe it would take someone from the left to make some hard but necessary changes to France's economy.

Until then, if anyone needs to be cleaned up "à coups de kärcher," it's Sarkozy and his ilk, including "Madame la Ministre" Rachida Dati.

Hi Sean - I understand your point of view, but strongly disagree. Politics is a scummy game, and no one that plays stays clean. Sure, Sarko threw a bone or two to the far right.. like Sego & her pro-profits comments. I don't agree with Sarko's immigration tchache, but I think he's too much of a pragmatist to shoot himself in the foot economically by actually attacking immigration as President. Watch his spoken policy drop under the waterline as soon as he's elected. He knows, as we all do, that the immigrants are the hardest-working people in France, and for less. Their contribution via work, consumption & taxes far outweighs the cost of keeping the door, if not exactly open, at least slightly ajar.
I have said the same thing as you about the leftists being the reformers here, but I don't believe they're capable anymore. They are too sharply split among themselves, and some don’t want reform at all.
During the riots last year, we all saw the photos of policemen, firemen, even ambulance drivers trying to do their jobs being targets for morons throwing rocks, Molotov cocktails and worse. Sarko was Minister of the Interior then, and those were “his guys”. I too would have called the rioters “racaille”, and worse.
I do agree that we're headed for social confrontation this fall, but don't expect Sarko to cave in. He's got such a big ego that he'll stand up to the demonstrations, as I believe he should.
Not that he should turn the CRS loose with fire hoses & dogs, but that he should shame the self-serving syndicalists & functionaires into dropping their anti-growth, anti-job positions. Villepin was obliged to back down, as his President lacked the political courage to stand up & take responsibility (that’s Jacques all over, n’est pas?) Villepin had no mandate for reform. Sarko will.
By the way, it was Nixon that opened up China. (Actually, it was Kissinger that opened up China via the Nixon-look-alike puppet. Nixon was already a tranquilized zombie by then.)

Oops, that is embarrassing. I thought Nixon but wrote Reagan. I think I've got him on the mind these days.

I just got in from a lecture and a late dinner, so I'll respond tomorrow...

While I'm with you 100% on the LePen side, can't agree on your "hopefully..."
I immigrated to France from America almost 20 years ago, and I’ve been lucky enough to know both countries from within. Sarko, much as he represents a more liberal economy, is a far cry from LePen, or even dubya, shrub, W… you know, Bush.
Although I am uncomfortable about some of Sarko's flirtation with the far right (on immigration, etc) during the campaign, I do believe he offers the best chance to reform France. At the risk of sounding cynical, it’s not like one has to want to invite the guy over for dinner. If I must hold my nose while voting Sarko, so be it.
In any case, the Socialists are still defending "the French model" as if there was such a thing that could interest anyone in France or elsewhere with any understanding of economics. She can thus only offer empty promises for justice & benefits for all. Too bad the PS hasn't learned from the lessons of the UK, Germany, & the Clinton democrats in the US... The old left ideas are broken, and only the "new left", fiscally responsible, pro-growth, pro-business, and featuring a real sustainable social & environmental program can beat the right. If this existed in France, I'd vote Socialist again. Until them, Sarko has my vote.

While I can agree that Royal is far from an ideal president and that France's economy is in desperate need of reform, I can't say that I'd ever vote for Sarkozy. Ever. Even if it were Sarkozy v. Le Pen, I'd just as soon not vote at all.

Sarko is the last person that should be carrying out reforms. Some of his policies and remarks, particularly as regards immigration and "la racaille," are remarkably similar to those of Le Pen.

He is such a polarizing character that any reform he tries to implement will be met with extreme and perhaps violent opposition. Think the anti-CPE demonstrations and the riots in 2005 were bad? Wait until Sarkozy is calling the shots. Even De Villepin was able to unite the students and the fonctionnaires (two groups whose economic interests are ostensibly at odds) against the CPE. The potential for anti-Sarko groups that may not have much in common is even greater.

Like it took Reagan to go to China, maybe it would take someone from the left to make some hard but necessary changes to France's economy.

Until then, if anyone needs to be cleaned up "à coups de kärcher," it's Sarkozy and his ilk, including "Madame la Ministre" Rachida Dati.

Hi Sean - I understand your point of view, but strongly disagree. Politics is a scummy game, and no one that plays stays clean. Sure, Sarko threw a bone or two to the far right.. like Sego & her pro-profits comments. I don't agree with Sarko's immigration tchache, but I think he's too much of a pragmatist to shoot himself in the foot economically by actually attacking immigration as President. Watch his spoken policy drop under the waterline as soon as he's elected. He knows, as we all do, that the immigrants are the hardest-working people in France, and for less. Their contribution via work, consumption & taxes far outweighs the cost of keeping the door, if not exactly open, at least slightly ajar.
I have said the same thing as you about the leftists being the reformers here, but I don't believe they're capable anymore. They are too sharply split among themselves, and some don’t want reform at all.
During the riots last year, we all saw the photos of policemen, firemen, even ambulance drivers trying to do their jobs being targets for morons throwing rocks, Molotov cocktails and worse. Sarko was Minister of the Interior then, and those were “his guys”. I too would have called the rioters “racaille”, and worse.
I do agree that we're headed for social confrontation this fall, but don't expect Sarko to cave in. He's got such a big ego that he'll stand up to the demonstrations, as I believe he should.
Not that he should turn the CRS loose with fire hoses & dogs, but that he should shame the self-serving syndicalists & functionaires into dropping their anti-growth, anti-job positions. Villepin was obliged to back down, as his President lacked the political courage to stand up & take responsibility (that’s Jacques all over, n’est pas?) Villepin had no mandate for reform. Sarko will.
By the way, it was Nixon that opened up China. (Actually, it was Kissinger that opened up China via the Nixon-look-alike puppet. Nixon was already a tranquilized zombie by then.)

Oops, that is embarrassing. I thought Nixon but wrote Reagan. I think I've got him on the mind these days.

I just got in from a lecture and a late dinner, so I'll respond tomorrow...

While I'm with you 100% on the LePen side, can't agree on your "hopefully..."
I immigrated to France from America almost 20 years ago, and I’ve been lucky enough to know both countries from within. Sarko, much as he represents a more liberal economy, is a far cry from LePen, or even dubya, shrub, W… you know, Bush.
Although I am uncomfortable about some of Sarko's flirtation with the far right (on immigration, etc) during the campaign, I do believe he offers the best chance to reform France. At the risk of sounding cynical, it’s not like one has to want to invite the guy over for dinner. If I must hold my nose while voting Sarko, so be it.
In any case, the Socialists are still defending "the French model" as if there was such a thing that could interest anyone in France or elsewhere with any understanding of economics. She can thus only offer empty promises for justice & benefits for all. Too bad the PS hasn't learned from the lessons of the UK, Germany, & the Clinton democrats in the US... The old left ideas are broken, and only the "new left", fiscally responsible, pro-growth, pro-business, and featuring a real sustainable social & environmental program can beat the right. If this existed in France, I'd vote Socialist again. Until them, Sarko has my vote.

While I can agree that Royal is far from an ideal president and that France's economy is in desperate need of reform, I can't say that I'd ever vote for Sarkozy. Ever. Even if it were Sarkozy v. Le Pen, I'd just as soon not vote at all.

Sarko is the last person that should be carrying out reforms. Some of his policies and remarks, particularly as regards immigration and "la racaille," are remarkably similar to those of Le Pen.

He is such a polarizing character that any reform he tries to implement will be met with extreme and perhaps violent opposition. Think the anti-CPE demonstrations and the riots in 2005 were bad? Wait until Sarkozy is calling the shots. Even De Villepin was able to unite the students and the fonctionnaires (two groups whose economic interests are ostensibly at odds) against the CPE. The potential for anti-Sarko groups that may not have much in common is even greater.

Like it took Reagan to go to China, maybe it would take someone from the left to make some hard but necessary changes to France's economy.

Until then, if anyone needs to be cleaned up "à coups de kärcher," it's Sarkozy and his ilk, including "Madame la Ministre" Rachida Dati.

Hi Sean - I understand your point of view, but strongly disagree. Politics is a scummy game, and no one that plays stays clean. Sure, Sarko threw a bone or two to the far right.. like Sego & her pro-profits comments. I don't agree with Sarko's immigration tchache, but I think he's too much of a pragmatist to shoot himself in the foot economically by actually attacking immigration as President. Watch his spoken policy drop under the waterline as soon as he's elected. He knows, as we all do, that the immigrants are the hardest-working people in France, and for less. Their contribution via work, consumption & taxes far outweighs the cost of keeping the door, if not exactly open, at least slightly ajar.
I have said the same thing as you about the leftists being the reformers here, but I don't believe they're capable anymore. They are too sharply split among themselves, and some don’t want reform at all.
During the riots last year, we all saw the photos of policemen, firemen, even ambulance drivers trying to do their jobs being targets for morons throwing rocks, Molotov cocktails and worse. Sarko was Minister of the Interior then, and those were “his guys”. I too would have called the rioters “racaille”, and worse.
I do agree that we're headed for social confrontation this fall, but don't expect Sarko to cave in. He's got such a big ego that he'll stand up to the demonstrations, as I believe he should.
Not that he should turn the CRS loose with fire hoses & dogs, but that he should shame the self-serving syndicalists & functionaires into dropping their anti-growth, anti-job positions. Villepin was obliged to back down, as his President lacked the political courage to stand up & take responsibility (that’s Jacques all over, n’est pas?) Villepin had no mandate for reform. Sarko will.
By the way, it was Nixon that opened up China. (Actually, it was Kissinger that opened up China via the Nixon-look-alike puppet. Nixon was already a tranquilized zombie by then.)

Oops, that is embarrassing. I thought Nixon but wrote Reagan. I think I've got him on the mind these days.

I just got in from a lecture and a late dinner, so I'll respond tomorrow...

While I'm with you 100% on the LePen side, can't agree on your "hopefully..."
I immigrated to France from America almost 20 years ago, and I’ve been lucky enough to know both countries from within. Sarko, much as he represents a more liberal economy, is a far cry from LePen, or even dubya, shrub, W… you know, Bush.
Although I am uncomfortable about some of Sarko's flirtation with the far right (on immigration, etc) during the campaign, I do believe he offers the best chance to reform France. At the risk of sounding cynical, it’s not like one has to want to invite the guy over for dinner. If I must hold my nose while voting Sarko, so be it.
In any case, the Socialists are still defending "the French model" as if there was such a thing that could interest anyone in France or elsewhere with any understanding of economics. She can thus only offer empty promises for justice & benefits for all. Too bad the PS hasn't learned from the lessons of the UK, Germany, & the Clinton democrats in the US... The old left ideas are broken, and only the "new left", fiscally responsible, pro-growth, pro-business, and featuring a real sustainable social & environmental program can beat the right. If this existed in France, I'd vote Socialist again. Until them, Sarko has my vote.

While I can agree that Royal is far from an ideal president and that France's economy is in desperate need of reform, I can't say that I'd ever vote for Sarkozy. Ever. Even if it were Sarkozy v. Le Pen, I'd just as soon not vote at all.

Sarko is the last person that should be carrying out reforms. Some of his policies and remarks, particularly as regards immigration and "la racaille," are remarkably similar to those of Le Pen.

He is such a polarizing character that any reform he tries to implement will be met with extreme and perhaps violent opposition. Think the anti-CPE demonstrations and the riots in 2005 were bad? Wait until Sarkozy is calling the shots. Even De Villepin was able to unite the students and the fonctionnaires (two groups whose economic interests are ostensibly at odds) against the CPE. The potential for anti-Sarko groups that may not have much in common is even greater.

Like it took Reagan to go to China, maybe it would take someone from the left to make some hard but necessary changes to France's economy.

Until then, if anyone needs to be cleaned up "à coups de kärcher," it's Sarkozy and his ilk, including "Madame la Ministre" Rachida Dati.

Hi Sean - I understand your point of view, but strongly disagree. Politics is a scummy game, and no one that plays stays clean. Sure, Sarko threw a bone or two to the far right.. like Sego & her pro-profits comments. I don't agree with Sarko's immigration tchache, but I think he's too much of a pragmatist to shoot himself in the foot economically by actually attacking immigration as President. Watch his spoken policy drop under the waterline as soon as he's elected. He knows, as we all do, that the immigrants are the hardest-working people in France, and for less. Their contribution via work, consumption & taxes far outweighs the cost of keeping the door, if not exactly open, at least slightly ajar.
I have said the same thing as you about the leftists being the reformers here, but I don't believe they're capable anymore. They are too sharply split among themselves, and some don’t want reform at all.
During the riots last year, we all saw the photos of policemen, firemen, even ambulance drivers trying to do their jobs being targets for morons throwing rocks, Molotov cocktails and worse. Sarko was Minister of the Interior then, and those were “his guys”. I too would have called the rioters “racaille”, and worse.
I do agree that we're headed for social confrontation this fall, but don't expect Sarko to cave in. He's got such a big ego that he'll stand up to the demonstrations, as I believe he should.
Not that he should turn the CRS loose with fire hoses & dogs, but that he should shame the self-serving syndicalists & functionaires into dropping their anti-growth, anti-job positions. Villepin was obliged to back down, as his President lacked the political courage to stand up & take responsibility (that’s Jacques all over, n’est pas?) Villepin had no mandate for reform. Sarko will.
By the way, it was Nixon that opened up China. (Actually, it was Kissinger that opened up China via the Nixon-look-alike puppet. Nixon was already a tranquilized zombie by then.)

Oops, that is embarrassing. I thought Nixon but wrote Reagan. I think I've got him on the mind these days.

I just got in from a lecture and a late dinner, so I'll respond tomorrow...

While I'm with you 100% on the LePen side, can't agree on your "hopefully..."
I immigrated to France from America almost 20 years ago, and I’ve been lucky enough to know both countries from within. Sarko, much as he represents a more liberal economy, is a far cry from LePen, or even dubya, shrub, W… you know, Bush.
Although I am uncomfortable about some of Sarko's flirtation with the far right (on immigration, etc) during the campaign, I do believe he offers the best chance to reform France. At the risk of sounding cynical, it’s not like one has to want to invite the guy over for dinner. If I must hold my nose while voting Sarko, so be it.
In any case, the Socialists are still defending "the French model" as if there was such a thing that could interest anyone in France or elsewhere with any understanding of economics. She can thus only offer empty promises for justice & benefits for all. Too bad the PS hasn't learned from the lessons of the UK, Germany, & the Clinton democrats in the US... The old left ideas are broken, and only the "new left", fiscally responsible, pro-growth, pro-business, and featuring a real sustainable social & environmental program can beat the right. If this existed in France, I'd vote Socialist again. Until them, Sarko has my vote.

While I can agree that Royal is far from an ideal president and that France's economy is in desperate need of reform, I can't say that I'd ever vote for Sarkozy. Ever. Even if it were Sarkozy v. Le Pen, I'd just as soon not vote at all.

Sarko is the last person that should be carrying out reforms. Some of his policies and remarks, particularly as regards immigration and "la racaille," are remarkably similar to those of Le Pen.

He is such a polarizing character that any reform he tries to implement will be met with extreme and perhaps violent opposition. Think the anti-CPE demonstrations and the riots in 2005 were bad? Wait until Sarkozy is calling the shots. Even De Villepin was able to unite the students and the fonctionnaires (two groups whose economic interests are ostensibly at odds) against the CPE. The potential for anti-Sarko groups that may not have much in common is even greater.

Like it took Reagan to go to China, maybe it would take someone from the left to make some hard but necessary changes to France's economy.

Until then, if anyone needs to be cleaned up "à coups de kärcher," it's Sarkozy and his ilk, including "Madame la Ministre" Rachida Dati.

Hi Sean - I understand your point of view, but strongly disagree. Politics is a scummy game, and no one that plays stays clean. Sure, Sarko threw a bone or two to the far right.. like Sego & her pro-profits comments. I don't agree with Sarko's immigration tchache, but I think he's too much of a pragmatist to shoot himself in the foot economically by actually attacking immigration as President. Watch his spoken policy drop under the waterline as soon as he's elected. He knows, as we all do, that the immigrants are the hardest-working people in France, and for less. Their contribution via work, consumption & taxes far outweighs the cost of keeping the door, if not exactly open, at least slightly ajar.
I have said the same thing as you about the leftists being the reformers here, but I don't believe they're capable anymore. They are too sharply split among themselves, and some don’t want reform at all.
During the riots last year, we all saw the photos of policemen, firemen, even ambulance drivers trying to do their jobs being targets for morons throwing rocks, Molotov cocktails and worse. Sarko was Minister of the Interior then, and those were “his guys”. I too would have called the rioters “racaille”, and worse.
I do agree that we're headed for social confrontation this fall, but don't expect Sarko to cave in. He's got such a big ego that he'll stand up to the demonstrations, as I believe he should.
Not that he should turn the CRS loose with fire hoses & dogs, but that he should shame the self-serving syndicalists & functionaires into dropping their anti-growth, anti-job positions. Villepin was obliged to back down, as his President lacked the political courage to stand up & take responsibility (that’s Jacques all over, n’est pas?) Villepin had no mandate for reform. Sarko will.
By the way, it was Nixon that opened up China. (Actually, it was Kissinger that opened up China via the Nixon-look-alike puppet. Nixon was already a tranquilized zombie by then.)

Oops, that is embarrassing. I thought Nixon but wrote Reagan. I think I've got him on the mind these days.

I just got in from a lecture and a late dinner, so I'll respond tomorrow...